Lou Went To Bob Jones

Lou FCD
Continued from the UD thread at After the Bar Closes.

Specifically, page 292.

My comments thus far…
Me –

Yep, Kristine. Women go to colleges like that to get their Mrs.* Degree (as we used to say when I attended Blow Job Bob Jones U.)

They weren’t really encouraged to learn much, and most of the ones I knew never bothered to continue once they hooked their man.

They were well versed in setting the table, however.

Out of the four women I actually “dated” (that consists of supervised visitation in the student center and writing love notes through the campus mail) whilst there, none graduated, and none continued more than a semester past their engagement. (One of those engagements was to me, though it ended badly a few months later.)

*Oh, that’s pronounced “Em Ar Ess” just FYI.

Kristine –

Lou, did you really go to Bob Jones U? *Horror film shriek*

Louis –

Lou,You are a graduate of Bob Jones? Well I’ll be double dipped in dogshit, and there was I thinking you were human! You seem to have survived the experience all right though. Bravo. 😉

Louis

Me-

Hey kids. Sorry, I was watching the NASA TV update on the water on Mars thing….

Yep. I was a student at Blow Job U….

for exactly one semester, wherein I apparently asked too many questions and refused to accept the answers I got, and just shut up about it.

I was given a personal, face to face invitation to exit the campus at the end of the semester by Dr. Bob III.

It was the beginning of the end of my fundyism.

Soon after, I got laid.

’nuff said.

Louis –

Lou,You got booted from BJU after one semester for thinking? Shortly after which you engaged in the game of horizontal table tennis?

Priceless.

Oh dear, I think I’ve just pissed a kidney laughing! That HAS to be the funniest thing I’ve read since what Kristine said a post or two ago. You guys cracketh me up.

Louis

Me –

True story. Sucky part of that for them is that I was one of the faithful. I really just wanted to reconcile what the Bible was teaching, I wasn’t in any way questioning my faith… until I got the run-around.

I was a damned good preacher-boy, too.

It all started with a conversation about the classic “where do babies go when they die?”

I couldn’t reconcile “God is Love” with “No man cometh unto the Father but by me”. The short answer is they go to Hell. There is no “Age of Accountability” in the Bible. That’s a feel-good church doctrine to appease the masses.

It was only the first of a list of questions.

It was also the beginning of several years of internal turmoil (not to mention the beginning of the end of my BJU career), for which I am now grateful, but wish never to repeat.

k.e –

LouFCD ( he’s not the messiah, he’s just a very naughty boy)

Quote
It was also the beginning of several years of internal turmoil (not to mention the beginning of the end of my BJU career), for which I am now grateful, but wish never to repeat.

Indeed, that is the very real turmoil that AFD etc could not possibly stomach, they are that far removed from reality by their Mythology, that they suffer from institutional schizophrenia.

I think Mythology has something to say about that…. somewhere.

Oh yeah ….thats right……it REQUIRES being reborn, who wants to re-live the birth trauma? It could be like a very bad acid trip for the hard core fundamentalist.

Mythology in fact, it is full of such journeys, 40 days in the desert, Job wrestling his demons in his sleep the whole tale of Noah is a tale of rebirth, not to mention most of the tales of snakes in Myth, complete with snakes eating their own tails.

The snake shedding its skin is the archetypal rebirth symbol in Myth since everyone in ancient times would immediately recognize the symbol or sign. Nowadays who has seen a dried out snake skin while out and about?

A very real human experience that at one level works IF the story is taken as true OR is experienced by the journey taker.

Science deflates Myth as true history and for those that are unable to see beyond the words, removes meaning which causes all sorts of teeth gnashing…such as UD Joe’s’ and AFD’s denial.

The real problem is that the clash of science vs Myth produces people trapped in a reality no-mans land.

When objectivist rationality treats Myth as true stories a self created hyper technical h3ll is created where absolutes govern and nuance and subjective reasoning are meaningless.

If Myth were not mythandled by major religions and charlatans like Dembski and his moronic minions but accepted as they were always meant to be accepted; as windows into a magical reality full of wonder and wisdom, though not absolute truths, then there would be no need to have the stamp of approval from science.

Kristine –

[Warning: length]Unlike Lou I never was a preacher but I was the best student in my Sunday school/Bible classes, even when I wasn’t buying it anymore. (And why were the bored, disinterested students the ones who have hung on to the faith?)

I was talking to a co-worker who has a similar background about how it drives us nuts when believers violate the spirit of their religion in following the letter of scripture (i.e., charlatans). I think that atheists who had a religious upbringing never quite discard that concern for the spirit of what we’ve been taught; I wish the UD folks would consider motivation for our “materialism.” If the church really wants only mediocre minds and lukewarm conformists, that is definitely the message I received. And if it wants people to lie, then who occupies the moral high ground?

Re: Myths. Dembski said in his sermon that moral pain was more important than the physical pain. Whatever you think of that opinion, I haven’t been able to forget it and it did raise a few questions in my mind. Therefore, for the good of his soul, I would ask Dembski, if I could, what sacrifice he would be willing to make in the name of something else he spoke of, love of one’s neighbor. Specifically, I would like him to state yea or nay whether he subscribes to some of the loopier beliefs espoused by his colleagues (denial of the HIV-AIDS link, global warming denial, etc.) and if he would be willing to sacrifice these, at least, in the face of their possible detrimental effect upon other peoples’ lives—and speak out against them.

Also he should speak out against those arguments for intelligent design that he knows are mere creationist restatements. Why would he not do this, if there is scientific evidence instead? 😉

I understand how difficult and frightening it is to sacrifice one’s deeply-held notions and endure the subsequent moral pain of uncertainty, but it seems to me that Dembski is talking about a choice that a lot of us have already made—but he doesn’t see that, since our choices took us away from Jesus. Well, I’m not asking Dembski to give up Jesus; I’m willing to step away from that position, though I retain all the objections to religion that I’ve stated previously.

I’d be willing to draw the line behind the ones that I’ve previously drawn; would he be willing to draw the line somewhere? Pseudoscience has real consequences in people’s lives. So does valid science. Isn’t the pursuit of science an expression of love of one’s neighbor?

Me –

Quote (k.e @ Dec. 07 2006,11:33)

LouFCD ( he’s not the messiah, he’s just a very naughty boy)

and two VERY naughty girls…

😉

ScaryFacts –

Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 07 2006,08:36)

True story. Sucky part of that for them is that I was one of the faithful. I really just wanted to reconcile what the Bible was teaching, I wasn’t in any way questioning my faith… until I got the run-around….It was also the beginning of several years of internal turmoil (not to mention the beginning of the end of my BJU career), for which I am now grateful, but wish never to repeat.

It’s been five years since I left the church (and my 18 year long job as a pastor) and I am still trying to reconcile many things in my mind. You mention you were “one of the faithful.” I prefer the word “sincere.” I see very few in the church who are there for sincere and intellectually honest reasons. That’s one of the reasons I left.

I can readily accept the Bible as errant, but I do believe it is a reliable account of man’s understanding of his relationship with the Judeo/Christian deity. Perspective is everything.

The reasons I choose to remain a Christian despite what I have seen and experienced in the church are two-fold:

First, the principles work in my own life. Keeping a Sabbath has allowed my wife and I to raise two incredible young men—both of whom are sincere, thinking, compassionate and strong. Loving others has helped me to build relationships that are strong and mutually beneficial.

Second, (at the risk of sounding like Zero) I have had numerous experiences which lead me to believe there is a “spiritual existence.” I don’t have a complete grasp of that spiritual “place,” but I am confident it exists. In my own life I have been able to grasp that place through worshipping the Christian God. (That is not to say others may have been able to grasp that place through other means.)

(If anyone is interested I would be happy to post some of those experiences at my blog and we can discuss them. There are hundreds of them documented in my journals over the last 25 years. Some could obviously be subjective, but many are difficult to explain. I am not an evangelist, but I would like my thinking on this matter critiqued and you guys seem more than able to discuss logical fallicy.)

keiths –

Quote (Louis @ Dec. 07 2006,04:50)

Lou,You got booted from BJU after one semester for thinking?

Ah, the fundies stole his adolescence, so now he’s reliving it through JanieBelle and Kate.

Luckily I escaped fundyland at 14, still early enough to sow my oats.

I visited BJU in the 80’s. Highlights of the trip:
1) The “dating lounge”, where prim couples held hands on sofas under the watchful eyes of chaperones, and
2) The chain-link fence surrounding the campus, topped with strands of barbed wire. You’d have expected the barbed wire to be canted outward to repel intruders, but no, it was canted inward, as if BJU were a prison (which I suppose it was, for people like Lou).

keiths again –

It’s been five years since I left the church (and my 18 year long job as a pastor) and I am still trying to reconcile many things in my mind.Wow. It must have been wrenching to leave after 18 years as pastor.

Quote

(If anyone is interested I would be happy to post some of those experiences at my blog and we can discuss them.

I’d certainly be interested in reading and commenting on them.

Kristine –

Quote

I couldn’t reconcile “God is Love” with “No man cometh unto the Father but by me”. The short answer is they go to Hell. There is no “Age of Accountability” in the Bible. That’s a feel-good church doctrine to appease the masses.

Wow. At least when I finally had the courage to ask about how God could be so mean, killing the Egyptian first-born for what their parents had done, I was told (because my church wasn’t fundy, although some people were) that God sends all children to heaven no matter what they believed, because they were children. But I had already bought out of Christianity at around age nine or ten, anyway. That’s pretty young. Considering that I continued on alone in this for years, I raise the “design” question again.

Quote

I’d certainly be interested in reading and commenting on them.

So would I.

ScaryFacts –

Quote (keiths @ Dec. 07 2006,16:02)

Wow. It must have been wrenching to leave after 18 years as pastor.

Thanks Keiths for your kind words. Yes, it was difficult, but (mostly non-Christian) friends helped ease the transition. Now I see it as an amazingly positive step for my family and, surprisingly, my faith.
Quote (keiths @ Dec. 07 2006,16:02)

I’d certainly be interested in reading and commenting on them.

I’ll post some when I get a chance and I will let you know.

Me –

ScaryFacts, I (or more probably the girls) will be sure to make it ’round your place. They keep me hoppin’, though. I’m interested in your experiences.

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 07 2006,14:34)

Quote

Bad hair day?

No, not at all. Why? :p

I think maybe some church lady might be giving my comment the hate stare.

“Let her comment, Denyse, let her comment, we’ll just ignore her. Shhhh. Then when she leaves the table to go to the ladies’ room, everyone leave! And stick her with the bill (not that Bill). Wah-ha-ha-ha!”

I’ll just put it on my NASA charge. Billions of $$ worth of baby back ribs. ~smack!~

Kristine, I don’t know what it was about that, but it absolutely tickled my funny bone. Thank you for that.

Quote (keiths @ Dec. 07 2006,15:41)

Ah, the fundies stole his adolescence, so now he’s reliving it through JanieBelle and Kate.

Hmmm… You may be on to something. I got sucked in about the middle of 10th grade or so, just when the pimples started easing up enough to make girls an option.

Quote (keiths @ Dec. 07 2006,15:41)

I visited BJU in the 80’s. Highlights of the trip:
1) The “dating lounge”, where prim couples held hands on sofas under the watchful eyes of chaperones, and
2) The chain-link fence surrounding the campus, topped with strands of barbed wire. You’d have expected the barbed wire to be canted outward to repel intruders, but no, it was canted inward, as if BJU were a prison (which I suppose it was, for people like Lou).

Coincidentally enough, that’s when I was there. Fall ’85.

Ahh.. the memories. Beautiful fountain out front, I think they called it the “Bridge of Nations” as I recall.

The dating lounge – you weren’t technically allowed to hold a girl’s hand ANYWHERE on campus, but with the right monitors on duty there, you might get lucky and get away with it. We weren’t allowed to mingle with girls after dinner, except in specified places (the dating lounge may have been one of them – forgive me, it’s been a while).

Dinner was a formal affair, and you weren’t allowed to miss that. Afterwards, you were allowed to walk a girl back to her dorm (just to the intersection in the sidewalk out front), but you couldn’t hold her hand, kiss her, or stop moving. Everyone learned to walk very, very, very slowly, to extend the amount of time you could spend with your sweetie. That was nicknamed “The Snail Trail”, and was supervised all along the way.

Freshmen weren’t allowed to leave campus, except for church or for outreach extensions supervised by upper-classmen. An off-campus date was unthinkable.

The story with the fence was that it was to keep out the criminal element, but I don’t think that fooled very many of us. We knew what it was for.

Well, keeping us in and keeping out the Furman students who would dress up like BoJos (that’s what we were called) and try to sneak on campus to raid our weemens. (You always knew a BoJo by his haircut, slacks (usually navy or tan, but never jeans outside the dorm), white dress shirt, and red or yellow tie.) Bastards. They probably thought that was funny.

😀

But for all that, at least two girls I knew (and their paramours) got booted in the semester I was there because they were caught in the bushes around the side of the big Vespers hall. Another girl I knew of but didn’t really know personally wound up pregnant and left in shame. She never did divulge the name of her beau, as far as I know. Immaculate conception, maybe.

Kristine –

Don’t enable me Lou! Oops, too late.Louis—BTW—

Was that “crank” call last night good for you? Because it was confusing for me. You sounded like a woman—well, a woman imitating a man, anyway. And you’re so bitter about the Smithsonian. Did you have a film showing there that got yanked?

And when I asked for your address, you got all defensive: “I have a dress! I have a couple of dresses! Okay, they’re in my closet at my place in Canada, but still!” So you live in Canada?

Um. That was you, Louis, right?

Uh-oh. 😀

lkeithlu –

“The dating lounge – you weren’t technically allowed to hold a girl’s hand ANYWHERE on campus, but with the right monitors on duty there, you might get lucky and get away with it. We weren’t allowed to mingle with girls after dinner, except in specified places (the dating lounge may have been one of them – forgive me, it’s been a while).Dinner was a formal affair, and you weren’t allowed to miss that. Afterwards, you were allowed to walk a girl back to her dorm (just to the intersection in the sidewalk out front), but you couldn’t hold her hand, kiss her, or stop moving. Everyone learned to walk very, very, very slowly, to extend the amount of time you could spend with your sweetie. That was nicknamed “The Snail Trail”, and was supervised all along the way.

Freshmen weren’t allowed to leave campus, except for church or for outreach extensions supervised by upper-classmen. An off-campus date was unthinkable.

The story with the fence was that it was to keep out the criminal element, but I don’t think that fooled very many of us. We knew what it was for.”

This was a college????
I cannot imagine treating minors in this manner, much less
adults.

ScaryFacts –

Thanks for the encouragement guys.Before I share some of the supposed “supernatural” experiences I’ve had, I thought it might be good to think through how experiences can be evaluated.

When I relate an experience, there are several possiblities:

1. It is truly a supernatural experience.
2. It is coincidence/natural process which I misinterpreted
3. I’m lying
4. I’m deceived (either by my own psychosis, my unintentional superimposing after the fact some details that weren’t really present or by other’s intentional plan)

I think that pretty much covers the possibilities, but if there are others feel free to let me know.

Me –

Quote (lkeithlu @ Dec. 07 2006,17:27)

This was a college????
I cannot imagine treating minors in this manner, much less
adults.

Not only that, but I volunteered to go there. What the Hell was I thinking?

Now, ya wanna know something REALLY F’d up?

The members of my church were sadly disappointed that I would go to such a liberal college as BJ.

That’s not a typo.

lkeithlu –

Unbelievable

Arden Chatfield –

Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 07 2006,18:10)

The members of my church were sadly disappointed that I would go to such a liberal college as BJ.

I’m scared to even ask, but what colleges did they view as ‘not liberal’?

Mr_Christopher –

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 07 2006,18:22)

Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 07 2006,18:10)

The members of my church were sadly disappointed that I would go to such a liberal college as BJ.

I’m scared to even ask, but what colleges did they view as ‘not liberal’?

(Insert pic of SingSing here.)

Me –

um… I seemed to have hijacked the thread.

Please return to your normal heckling of UD at this time.

Further discussion should probably be taken up elsewhere, should anyone remain interested.

Probably off-topic for this forum, so we can take it to Crowded Head, Cozy Bed if anyone wants.

14 Responses to “Lou Went To Bob Jones”

  1. Anonymous Says:

    My mama always said “If you haven’t trained them up the way you want by 18, you might as well admit it. treating them like Middle School children in college is ridiculous.”

    KL (aka lkeithlu)

  2. Lou FCD Says:

    No kiddin’. You’d think that, wouldn’t ya?

  3. Lou FCD Says:

    To answer Arden’s question…

    There was a college in Indiana somewhere… I visited it my senior year in high school, but the name escapes me at the moment. It was very new at the time.

    Pilsbury, in Owatana MN was an acceptable second choice, but not as “good” as the first one…

  4. Lou FCD Says:

    Have I missed any of the relevent AtBC comments? I think I got them all.

  5. Arden Chatfield Says:

    Now, are you SURE Janie and Kate can’t hear us in here?

    Well, Fairhaven looks scary as shit. An American madrassah, to be sure.

    So why IS the ‘bus ministry’ entirely black and the ‘Sunday school’ entirely white (and blond)?

    Oh yeah, I forgot. They’re Fundies and it’s Indiana. Never mind.

    Well, seeing all those apostate fundies at ATBC makes me a bit more optimistic about the future of America. Sometimes all the attempts at forced imprinting in the world simply don’t work. 🙂

  6. Lou FCD Says:

    Fairhaven!

    That was the one. Pretty campus.

  7. Lou FCD Says:

    Privacy mode is on, Arden.

    I don’t remember if this is the offical position or not, but it was certainly espoused by the vast majority of the folks in my church, and espoused very publicly:

    Black skin is a result of the curse of Ham, wherein Noah got plastered, passed out in a tent, Ham came in looking for his drunk-ass Pop, saw him naked, Noah got pissed and cursed him.

    “And Noah began to be a husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:

    And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.

    And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his brethren without.

    And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.

    And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

    And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

    And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

    And God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”

    Genesis 9:20-27

    If you were black, would you want to go to that kind of church?

  8. Kristine Says:

    If you were black, would you want to go to that kind of church?

    Um, no! And not if I were poor, gifted, a woman…oh yeah.

  9. Lou FCD Says:

    Or pretty much anyone with a brain, or self-respect, really.

  10. Robyn Says:

    I am coming into this post late, a little confused with the switchover and all, but…a grew up a few miles from Fairhaven, and I have to say, it is scary indeed. And the founder was an absolute loose canon. But the story I had heard early on about black skin is that it was the mark of Cain, so that he would be known and not be hurt. I’m shaking my head as I write. Garbage regardless of the made up story.

    And Bob Jones? I can’t laugh because I went to something similar and left after three semesters because I was a bad student. I guess some people would also call me a bad Christian, but I don’t think God minds.

  11. Lou FCD Says:

    Don’t worry too much about it, Robyn. It’s pretty easy to get confused around here. Ya oughta be on this end!

    I had heard that story about the mark of Cain before, too, but that one is easily dropped back in their laps because they can’t explain how Cain’s descendents would be around if everyone but Noah and his kids was wiped out in the flood. Sometimes they’ll try to pull the ol’ “one of the wives” stuff, but they can’t even really buy into that one themselves.

    Even idiocy sometimes has its limits, I suppose.

    Where’d ya’ go? I hope it wasn’t quite as bad as BJ.

    I think the most important thing is how we treat those around us, rather than anything else.

    Even Jesus said that all the laws of the prophets hang on “love god, love your neighbor”. That’s usually conveniently forgotten by these folks, though.

  12. Lou FCD Says:

    I just went back through and reformatted the orginal post a little bit, to try to clarify who was saying what.

    Hope that helps.

  13. Robyn Says:

    I went to Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. Is that as bad as BJ? I’m not sure. I suppose it’s apples and oranges to some people. Based on what I have heard of BJ in recent years, I’d take Moody any day. But still, it was not place for me then or now. Especially not now.

  14. Lou FCD Says:

    Hi Robyn! Thanks for the link love at your place!

    No, Moody doesn’t hold a candle to BJ in terms of insanity. On the same trip to visit Fairhaven and Pillsbury, we stopped at Moody (I think it was supposed to be an example of where not to go!)

    I understand what you mean about “especially not now”. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were a giant “Keep Out” billboard at the Greenville city limits with my picture on it.

    ‘course, they needn’t have bothered.

    🙂


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